Episode: 85 – Gender Neutrality


Episode: 85 – Gender Neutrality


A mysterious package sparks a conversation about gender roles in our society; and upon colonizing the moon, is it even possible to raise children gender neutral? Later, Jeff shares kind of a f****d up story.


hello everybody Welcome to harmontown
Anastasia Maher apartment town
Dan Harmon
open packs and to your penis
ridiculous that song it’s called Little Willie no offense
I don’t have you anything you wanted to talk about tonight but we got a mysterious package delivered to us in the Green Room really appears to be a self-published book by a man named Daniel Quinn
called Beyond civilization Humanity’s next great adventure
and you’re all wondering do I simply have to wrap something in brown paper.
Send it to the Green Room in order to have have you focus your episode on it but
read the read the first read the first like couple actually want to read what caught my eye on the back says
in the Beyond civilization Daniel Quinn thinks the unthinkable that we have to assume Oakland Road
but so but that doesn’t matter everyone everyone comes to a point in their life with
thanks the unthinkable we all know there’s no one right way to build a bicycle
you’re laughing at that gives a specific but it’s true we all know there’s no one right right way to design an automobile way to make a pair of shoes but we’re convinced that there must be only one right way to live and the one we have is it no matter what
so supposition of the book is that you’re a pigheaded asshole and play goes because only one way to go to bicycle
certainly certainly two tires have to be involved or you or you’ve urged into tricycle territory
and they have to be in a row otherwise you’ll fall right over
I feel like I could see a thing where there’s like two tires like a Steinway I said what are you doing here is the inventor of the Segway would have you believe the Segway is that a bicycle do you would have you would have in his book called the sick line Adventures would have you believe the Segway is a new invention maybe it’s just a bicycle and ask questions man you think other things if you paid through it looked at it it would look like it was like a riddle book from the 80s
Forest of every page is blank is each page is just a thought that he had
I went to some other book that he wrote in my Ishmael that’s a book that he wrote I recounted the life of a young man named Jeffrey Loosely based on Paul effinger who’s Journal was published by his father under the title wrestling and if you’re out there thank you for the book Thank you for sending it I opened it
Daniel Quinn please come down undoubtedly from Canada and didn’t
I’m 90% certain your Canadian defended this use of paper
I’m looking at two pages when there’s no more than 80 characters on the entire two pages
okay part 2 closing in on the process… Well yeah I didn’t realize like when Eminem writes the controversial rap lyrics they have somebody had CNN reads the city is Ultimate collapse whatever happened to the City was destroyed the collapse may have been caused by
I swear I’ve been available to see impossible think one of these days I’m going to write a book and its will be many of the pages will be empty I just don’t I don’t know maybe have a blank for the bottom 4th or 5th of the page make a make a shorter book
Consolidated you’re saying you think cut cut the bottom 4th of
make a smaller
there’s certainly room down there to invite a Mad Magazine artist or something
there’s new levels that could be added that’s definitely his go to the publisher the publisher being wasted Mac Papers
all right so we can say we took a dump on some poor kid is it kid
I imagine I don’t think you’re 40 and you’re doing stuff like that I don’t know I think that’s a Max of a 25 year old in the world simply because like Pokemon like three line poem and then start a new one a couple lines beneath that and keep the book rate of home I mean to the pages aren’t numbered with page number
alright cuz it’s the new tribalism. It says we are inclined to think of hunters and gatherers as poor because they don’t have anything for haps better to think of them for that reason
Vanessa Marshall silent so he just calling people
his life that he wants to share with you and your your your you know your China
all right now
so can we please let’s go let’s go let’s go what did we do
now we know we all know what you shouldn’t do you shouldn’t write a book like that you shouldn’t send it to us in the publisher feels like a girls trip do you miss going a huge family gathering Viking soul food do you miss meeting the parents so I can get out well actually, never misses that but you can still do all of these things with me Desmond Thorne on my podcast adventures in Black Cinema each week I take you on a journey through a new black film how it relates to the culture and sometimes have the themes related my own life so there’s always a little tea and a slight bit of embarrassment and of course as a filmmaker myself and one of the blackest Phil nerdiest film nerves like ever you’re always in good hands
adventures in Blacksburg, but Desmond Thorne executive-produced by Amanda seales new episodes every Tuesday on all major podcast platforms
but I do think it’s an interesting idea that we civilizations like bicycles or can openers or shoes are inventions their systems that we have devised collectively they are larger than shoes and can openers but they are
who invented we’ve decided at some point that Civilization should resemble that you have a certain shape to him your species become so successful that it’s outbreeding the Bears wolves and cats that used to eat it what do you do
you form a civilization you form rules you build a big wall or can’t keep killing each other and getting each other very very thin like kind of date Aunt a long time ago like let’s let’s not hurt each other holyshit let’s let’s let’s love each other is it the right way do we think of each other in the right way if we were to go to the Moon Jeff did you think that people think of each other as people that we shouldn’t hurt or use or abuse yeah you do around at any door in June terrible things to each other all the time but I think I own and masonry and things we could insulate ourselves that we didn’t have to keep moving around we could start we could start by making permanent dwellings and then gave his leisure time
things like arts and creative things like textiles and stuff like that also it created the idea that men treated women like shit forever like all kinds of other goodies yes okay so there’s an interesting strange
I already there because it seems that mankind kind of is very cruel to itself when we have shit on our plate there’s a human impulse to be inhuman to each other when we have the excuse that we have so much shit to do and then at the same time strangely enough gender-wise it would seem like luxury begats of uses
yeah doesn’t it seem like the more the more dessert the more free time we get the more unfair we are to be like when when things weren’t like a hunter-gatherer they tend to be a matriarchal intend to be feminine and the moment that we started building permit drawings it was mad because patrilineal build a thing I’m going to pass it down to my my mail are and then women get push to the forever isn’t that the history of of of this amazing country just to look at that as a microcosm of it poetically tragically ironic fact that we built this country on slavery which couldn’t be a more inhuman act you take people from a different culture and you say to them you are not human to us we choose to you
is you to benefit ourselves and we choose not to care about the happiness and health of you and your progeny we choose and faxed to breed you and heard you as if you were animals and there’s no other way to put it than that and that is the true profanity is of of slavery and and to build a country on that and then to come around and go you know what we were wrong about that actually boy is anybody feeling nauseous about this yeah right around the time that industry affords us the opportunity to replace these people with machines yes we all start to feel nauseous about it screams and to give those people to vote
and then also then after that sometime after that I say to women you are now also allowed to participate in things to focus in on the great New York the great the great cities of Europe were built on treating people like a resource that people were murdered by the millions to make great cities to get to create like like like like really basic things that’s why if you go to enter upon its sexy is because of just Slaughter of a thousand people and then
women got the vote later which is fucking amazing the women the women that the men who were hurting each other men can have a piffany is about in humanity
and the entire time they’re having those epiphanies they can go home to bed with a woman that they are actively a press a couple weeks ago and you said you were writing a thing for our Culture magazine or whatever was asking you about your 20 cultural things are informed as a cultural thing but it really is but like
what’s your stance on how do you proceed femininity as in culture like supporting male think I shall tend to end up being a lot of dudes on stage and occasionally Like a Woman Within him too he can take a white man can look at a another man who has different cheekbones are different pigmentation and he can make it to see can switch some switch in his head and say oh well I decide to dehumanize this person I decide to commit the the the the worst crime you can commit against another human being witches to dehumanize them I will I will in fact profit off of that dehumidification I will switch off this thing in my head it will use this person genocide
display klee-klee truly the worst crime you can commit and then in that sort of male stereotypical sense like watching two guys fight in a bar where somebody breaks a bottle in the their slashing at each other and then they work out something and then they end up with their arms around each other and then there’s some weird elephant in the room or it’s like but none of you respect your wisdom. Gender politics still eludes us I think it’s a very it’s a really weird thing because no one wants to hear about it makes you feel the work is harder to handle than racial politics because you you racial politics can come down to like some latitude about like you go oh well yeah I had an epiphany this morning while brushing my teeth my friends darker skin than me that doesn’t make him less of a person but you can’t stand there there are barriers you can’t get me on it and you’re thinking about women your mom was a woman
if you had a wiener and your mom didn’t like it that you’re carrying into your adulthood you may be punishing women for shit that you didn’t know you’re you don’t know that you’re doing it like they leave they suffered man what is your relationship with women are beautiful
is there a groovy bunch of chicks I don’t know I don’t I don’t know it’s totally Tommy Leon
I composed oh I know I know it’s totally untappd for me I really don’t it’s it’s Uncharted Territory I watch the the most recent cut of the apartment tour documentary and you talked about the fact that it like communicating with anybody any strange or even your friends is always a crisis meeting with a stranger extra crisis how comfortable are women more strange to you than other men like you certainly seem to have a relationship with women that’s like
call a little more fearful more fearful than what than a 9 foot tall guy than a four foot tall guy that a guy in a wheelchair that guy with a with a with a weird really weird hat on the extent that great balance is what I’m saying now that’s that that’s the that’s the unexplored question of gender it because we have this tendency to simultaneously talk about the human species is which is just very neatly
divided down the middle gender-wise as men and there’s women and then we have all of these we have it out politically about race and I must say you but it was in all these nations and all of these races there’s this it’s almost like the crime is committed and end finished and gotten away with before it’s ever called to court because let’s let’s face it we we we all like are born into a world where we’re trained to think about men and women
as these that that that has room and there are equal number in terms of sheer Runners whatever and a male writers and female writers do you not have an automatic opinion about like like a Google or a female writer in your writers room you do carry anything into that yeah if there’s one new female writer in a room full of 10 male writers I am distracted by how distracting things must be for her I get distracted by that that’s why I like I would like it to be like half man and half women and it and it really can be so I find myself thinking about the two women friends in season 5 of community read to two female Ryder and Ryder’s room and I find myself filtering sayings through their experience are we getting to
abrasive are we are I know that female writers are not tender at all that’s not what I mean are we but what would this look like on an affidavit later
it it it it it Bears thinking and which is why the easiest thing in the world or rather the hardest thing to achieve but then the easiest thing to maintain is half and half represent the species in the writers room so that is like if if if if if a single individual male writer has a tendency to trust his chest out and get abrasive and his language than he’s got he’s got a proper amount of women to contend with I think there was a it like a European Cup championship rings like soccer and I like football football and it was in the Netherlands and I forget what team what countries are playing and the Dutch police did it did a genius things are the two countries that hate each other and tend to get pretty violent the two to two different countries like their fans got little hooligan hooligan a and
all all the cops to put on women in the streets all Dutch female police as it’s true I’m telling like they like 7:10 because it was just a bunch of women police out there and nobody nobody wanted to fight and he was like you didn’t know if it’s because they all wanted a picture with them because they’re all like history angsty like 2 Strasse terroni environment the added more guys with more agendas and more weapons on them not going to help you just you just put a bunch of women the mixing tempera is it because you have a thousand guys in the fucking building together that have like agenda is it going to be a fucking bummer and it was like the greatest moments in police force history of does just saying like everything the fuck out
yeah but you can defend somebody so quick by talking about that like like like the idea that they have a gender identity that they they they put those women out there in that that had any kind of effect ready, because we be afraid it may get 5 stars terrible would happen I think they just did it because they had the idea that it was cool everything cool everything down I don’t know if everybody
it’s interesting to me because like we all know we all know for a fact we all know for an absolute fact
iron squirming backstage because the reason why I initially really fell for you was with your Dan playset
with your what what you what you said to me regarding how you how you felt about women
I said they were hacked
the men were so violently opposed to a funny man or a poster to funny women because they
they hated women because they’re so threatened by them because it was because women are so Dynamic and emotional and interesting and and confident and weird and
and then had a hard time with that being said hey I think maybe I hate women
play someone saying like I think I hate women I think I hate them because I love them I think I hate them because I want to see them because I because I admire them because I think they’re amazing and I am upset by that and that was like that was gender is obviously the theme of the show tonight unless I think is important great if we go to the Moon okay it’s easy not spending any of our listeners of color
I don’t I will I mean I don’t know I just made it race somehow
what race is easy race is easy country
Moon and you want to start a new perfect civilization I know that you make the road straight know you disagree on that you want a scenic view you want it Baba I’m saying like certain logical things if I take a group of people to the moon and I start a fire in the rain going to have to be straightened
I’m just saying that when one fantasizes when one expresses their their impulse and this is a healthy info everyone in the audience asked yourself what would you do if you could start from scratch because then you might even actually be able to make a couple of things happen down here so what would you do about gender
what is it in Convent Upon A because it’s very very easy to talk about race fact our nation was built on slavery fact most of the non caucasoid Americans who are the African Americans as we call it which I think is a ridiculous phrased the sentence of a practice called slavery which is not too long ago where we built the entire country on them and then we went okay we feel bad about this also it’s technologically appropriate let’s now let’s let’s let’s let’s read this into society these are these are easy facts to deal with and you can easily deal with them even though you can’t easily deal with them politically and economically you can easily deal with them philosophically by saying such simple
no one can argue with them things like color who cares
easy easy peasy
search for his gender do you mean that the government would have dressed gender is hers like restrooms are in a marriage license and I don’t know if they’re looking for a very very long time like the civilization is controlling shit and women have been pushed out of all fucking conversation at all times it’s in the times when I have like like for instance I’ve been on television show has been around and the men on the name of the writers and producers make in the camera so I can’t you hear arguments and you hear a bunch of fucking bullshit a line where the front line with women women were the directors camera like first aid he’s like that communication they all fucking dealt with stuff with it did it was no less problems and no less like steaks they just managed to deal with it in a much cooler way
I think you should involve women away more and then since Ted of letting a bunch of guys like getting a run everything because it’s gross and icky and a bunch of fucking cock fighting all the time but I forgot to ask. It’s just ridiculous that all of our statues are about to have a bunch of dudes never put a woman in a hilarious that we live in a needlessly mail world this is so stupid but do you
okay but do you actually like is there okay fantasizing your head we’re landing on them we’re landing on the moon tomorrow there’s a rocket ship full of 100 people Lexus Lexus 250 man in 50 women let’s assume that we’re splitting it down the middle but it’s a hundred people fifty men 50 women biologically when we are going to set up a school we’re going to teach children we’re going to there’s going to be a new generation after we land on the Moon and we pitch our tents and we do our thing the idea is that the following generation is going to have a chance of being wiped clean of all kinds of shit because that’s all we’ve been trying to do down here forever. Our funerals for various words and our our our our our letters.
big eyed and I are fucking like like we fantasize about a clean slate and there’s no better clean slate than a colony will you just take a select group of people and just go OK Google what we going to do what are we going to do about are we going to
projection do you mean like sexually 50 women or do you mean gender-wise 50 minutes 50 women talking about the LA prospective or it’s like our 10 of these people people that are men that identify as women and Bubba blah but but I’m saying like let’s just start simple when we’re teaching them the alphabet
when were when were when were giving them toys
are we are we going to commit to the idea that children need to be programmed in are we how do we we know how to do that rationally explain do that you just don’t take children we know that you just simply don’t program children with racism but we don’t know yet how to not program children with gender politics we don’t understand what that means I don’t understand what that means what would you do in a neutral sterile kind of colony would you is it are there are there pitfalls to avoid kids like toys what do you do you do you have to give them General gender-neutral toys
really start to express gender as I I listen to stories on NPR about kids expressing their their gender and it’s when it’s in an ironic capacity when the kid is like and I got a while we we wanted to support him and but he wanted to do the thing and we don’t know what what is politically correct right now doing
yeah I think really answer we’re really going to the moon and we’re really figuring this stuff out I think that I would which it which I think is what most parents do is follow whatever their kids want
my parents are great but I don’t think that they were Progressive in anyway and I know that when I was growing up I played with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Barbie house but with no Barbies and with the wind bag of Kit Kat bars with a terrible idea
and cucumbers and tomatoes and and then for the kids it would be like a burlap sack that would have messed my car’s Matchbox cars but also Treasure Trolls and I mean that it’s not the real answer is that that like that’s not that big of a deal because like every that doesn’t mean your sexuality like you play with but making them available to everyone I’m sorry I don’t know you but if bring a train to Manhattan
can we should really be bringing out his cabell’s wife Emily she she tells me about it but I don’t listen to stuff having fun
by the way was that book you guys wearing those Daniel Quinn I just read one of his books of college and I hated it I hated it so much it’s called a smell was his book and it’s about this rather than that

it’s how do I get to help other countries I just got to let him dive when they get diseases anyway
based on format I like finding out that you don’t like him for the for real reason to hate about it look at it you think he’s coming cuz he he doesn’t care about the content also change their lives and I really really had such a visceral negative reaction I’m just saying I mean yeah I hope so unless you know one of our ships as well you’ve heard of these these kids Partnerships right
you find another couple admire
I need to switch babies
so, you have your own kid then after a while at our kid
an art Kennedy but just like I don’t know but I am the reason we are I think and if our stuff works we will have a kid gender politics politics doesn’t even work cuz the word for the issue at hand what does gender mean how how much is ginger an artificial construct in a world where we started to understand that raises an artificial construct how much do we owe it to ourselves to think of gender is an artificial construct has been sick right now I understand what your hang-up is what what’s what’s the rules to take your kid into the garage
and close the garage door and train the kid to be racist we now know through the lens of 2014 how to recognize what you’re doing right and wrong with the child yeah we can actually start of empirical since we can Define bad child-rearing to the extent that you were raising your child to be conscious of race going to put your concern about having a child my question is how now how does that work with gender Emily has friends there a lesbian and they have a cat and they are raising the baby gender neutral and the baby is female and female name but what they’re doing is there’s no nothing is blue and nothing is playing and it’s not dolls and it’s not action figures so the babies playing with toys that are boy or a girl
please Mom was very close to the couple give the kid gender-neutral stuff and so the mom bought her like a flower bulb instead of Toys R Us you walk into it I all three aisle for il-5 I’ll fix I’ll send it they’re not they’re based on ages of children’s are also based genders of children I don’t know if they’ve tried it like like like do you like capitalism like so if you’re a same-sex couple your lesbian friends are having a kid they make the decision we’re going to have a gender-neutral child we’re not going to fuck with his child gender-wise we’re not going to now they’re also in this larger colony
yeah sure it’s it’s it’s impossible to vote that they’re gay or straight or male or female, well maybe some some Perry might know somewhere out there might be going to hate faggets stop playing with that truck I could take the kids to their people here who have young children who
does anyone here have kids
that feels right places but like it’s very uncool to suggest to a child that they should be playing with a certain thing the kids tend to be attracted to one or the other but it doesn’t mean anything but it comes from like you said the larger society it’s almost impossible to raise a kid complete thanks both sexes what is going to be hard even when the kid goes to school but dad is going to happen I mean what condition when you like it’s all sort of other one or the other. It’s really
if your if your little girl is playing with tracks and is talking about murdering Cowboys or whatever it’s not they will be General gender-neutral thing it’s not say she likes to talk she doesn’t like these these doll if you whatever it’s it’s just it’s just about allowing kids do whatever because if previously they were the truck that was bad they would take the truck away and Toys R Us and let the kid go play with whatever a small stroke
then the parents and it’s good that the parents are trying to specifically at some point being like I’m going to learn to walk I remember thinking that no one told me or made fun of me of the way I walked but I mean look at me walk I walk something manly now
but I remember that pressure came and it even if nobody tells you it’s all there it is a dicot are you smart or are you guys are going to be married probably within the your words are so right are you already thinking about kids
yes yes or no I don’t know why I don’t remember if a guy is not in the crowd is he the guy who wrote that I can say is that she had a boy I would how would you approach that what would be your final his privates with Ira Ira Ira Clara and I’m already doing it wrong color wrap around.
it’s called her afro if I was blessed enough that we were able to conceive a child lately I’ve been thinking I’d rather have a girl
because all I can do is be ironic and and the circuit the circumcision issue is very heavy. I don’t want my son to go through that or or my daughter that are circumcised
and I feel like same-sex children tend to Target in in puberty they target the same-sex parent I think I like the idea of just having a little girl that’s like daddy’s little girl at the end start to hate you when she’s 12
so you had a boy was had a boy and it’s like Ikea this for like it’s time for a little league or soccer or whatever like I said I would love to have a little boy and I absolutely am not as like if I know that the way Karma works is I will have a kid and he will be very end of football I know that but there’s nothing wrong with that I think it’s fine I wasn’t ever going to the store like already I’m psyching myself up about football for my kids and I’ll never I swear to God I’ll never I’ll never see a typewriter he won’t be able to because I don’t exist anymore on many occasions girl
yeah you should their terrible now we’re getting to it your dad
Mount Sterling
to perform our wedding
and perform at your wedding or performing as a preacher he wants to because he’s so great he’s so good at being a wedding officiant that you didn’t deserve very young when my dad randomly say like what I felt really weird about that
yeah your performance performed hundreds of wedding if you have a kid
the nanny in La for many years to become really unimportant yeah in La when everyone’s Rich should never could do whatever the right now I’m talking about starting it we’re starting a colony how do you how do you approach things logically I’m saying what’s the right thing to do we’re all well aware as Adam Goldberg Ray succinctly said we’re in La it’s been cool to be gay here for eighty years progressively speaking gender identity from tracks and dolls or whatever because everyone is like little kids are okay but okay so and the rest of the bottom line is that the kid like that you can have you take a bifurcated approach
you buy a dump truck at a Barbie doll and you put them in front of them board games
in my head I was most General neutral spring I can think of that’s unfortunate that she became Betty Davis is their daughter did they didn’t want to give her princess costumes before she was too old to choose them over Italy girly stuff at time is past matters my niece has just absolutely on her own she didn’t watch TV she doesn’t want any commercials she has never watch TV she does not know like they asked her what would you like for Christmas
what do you want just a new water bottle can have this ridiculous thing or this this this incredibly who are feminine male thing or whatever the fuck but on her own terms she has started dressing up like princesses and fairies because she’s into that and that was never put on or she has just gravitated towards costumes and what they made for her for her fifth birthday was a big Wardrobe gender-neutral male-female does Cowboys cowgirls bring water
by what you would like I can listen to her she’s clearly made her own decisions about what she would like to walk around the house to make kids choose I think I know I would have chosen her dressed like it there so much prettier than holyshit I know right I wish it to girls in the first marriage and then she had that she married my dad and there was my brother was the first born and that marriage was a boy he was my father’s boy more and it was right when I came along I really feel like I was supposed to be a girl so much of my childhood was spent dressed in tight and dancing and doing things like that I really feel like I ought to have been a girl was perfect until I came here
is I dressed as a woman that was my costume just me
Lady Gaga
I know Pratt way girl I felt pretty I didn’t I didn’t feel like a fat guy like high school college there’s a thing where girls love to put me in women’s clothing just like to dress certain friends of theirs out but I got they always love to put me in women’s clothing I was always totally fine with it. If it looks great and so I can see it feels fine like you
what was the point of like putting on a child that doesn’t idea that you have to do one way or the other and intentionally taught me how to throw a curveball and a changeup and slider and other stuff and I learned how to do his manly stuff also I was dancing I got so much femininity in summer to masculinity and I need a side of the product of a very Los Angeles last I grew up in the Seder I had friends when I was 4 years old there was a guy that dropped the first plan was and he was very clearly even to a four-year-old me I knew that he was a queen he was a big what’s plan C Oscar Wilde he like like awesome The Grand Theatre clearly was awesome and he was my my mother’s friends throughout her entire life until she died and he was a part of
my life I grew up in the theater and they were clearly people that before I knew his sexuality was before I’d ever had an erection before I knew what the difference between male and female anatomy was I didn’t know that there were people in my life that works the way I was supposed to be my friend in the world because of the theater because my parents weren’t homophobic my parents weren’t dogmatic but I must have talked about this Michelle before maybe not I was 9 years old or even younger I dressers and they were the greats like like late 70s early 80s Queens I didn’t make out in front of each other in front of me and I asked my hairdresser when I was nine or ten we’re going to terrible haircut
are you getting your getting made up before before play and hair dryer what is your life so I was
let’s fucking crazy what Yul Brynner funny costumes are really hard to getting out of his like tons of hooks and snaps and shit like that they’re all these old really ridiculous old costumes and then his a guy that he was kind of dating with his hairdresser guy that will come in and they were just like french-kissing front of me and I was ten and then it’s been 11 and I asked that the younger guy who is probably like in his mid-twenties I said like so did you know you’re a gay all the time cuz you always nice
are you always knew if I did grow up to be like a good like 70% of the people on that production Were Gay and sadly and absolutely truly almost all of them dead because from from AIDS because I was just like the did the early days of that Michael was it 8485 as much of that production is this guy told me I thought I was straight until I was 18 I got so homophobic and so worried about the only because of my like my thinking is hard I’m sure as a young boy when he act like I was literally taken off the pitcher’s mound to go a dishion for The King and I embarrassing you so by my mom and so I when I went home at night and I
it went to bed was closer magazine and it was a picture of a guy I will keep looking until it was a picture of a woman like Mania and if I was watching TV and waiting for the picture of one I cuz it don’t get the last image of my mind is a picture of a man being straight or gay was just toss of the coin and I believe that’s what that guy did the world that I thought we lived it and then one day when I was 12 years old like laying in bed I just want to know
I like women went to bed and never did that again but that was because anybody told her beat it out of me or whatever but it wasn’t like I might not know this until I am much older than I am right now and that will be okay but it will be okay because it’s fucking you get treated like shit. At the age of 40 looking back on it because it’s his clean cut a straight versus gay and that’s what I’m talking about because we’re entering a world now we’re becoming increasingly conscious of the pressures of gender identity and it’s not as clean cut as traitor guy with gender-identity you don’t know how feminine you’re allowed to be your supposed to be or how masculine you’re allowed to be were supposed to be this isn’t about straight or gay
that’s our struggle to turn gender politics into something is clean-cut as racial politics because your skin is brown or your skin is white and you had sex with a man and put your mouth on his penis or you didn’t there are we have friends of harmontown who come up here who look like dudes and act like dudes and identify as women in their hearts and their minds and it’s incumbent Upon a Time I’m just curious as a guys thinking about having a kid this new world and also is a philosophical thought exercise I’m asking the question like it doesn’t look like look what goes through the young brain look what about when you felt like gender was being projected onto you your your your sexual roles and stuff The King and I dressing room
the chorus and the men’s probably about 20 or 25 a piece and the men’s dressing room they’re only a couple straight guys in that most most of the dancers were gay guys and they always had kind of ironically, we traveled together there be a there be two calendars next to each other one was a calendar of all like hot like fire like naked and then one of naked women if it was only for one or two guys and so I was I was 10 years old and my friend I just said
that’s fucking crazy because it wouldn’t they wouldn’t let us go on evil you wanted your understudy to go do it they wouldn’t let you were just so good know they did they were they just had this weird climate of they did not want to go out there of Jeff as a kid no I mean I’m scared
is there anybody in the audience I would imagine I was looking at the only like we were exposed to a lot of pictures of naked women so we saw the account it was right next to it like naked guys and there was a naked girls we’re looking at them and there was a dude in the fucking cast God bless him who is just as gay as a day in May he was so fucking mad he would always kind of her ring us I know that you’re really looking at
fucking 10 Enterprise give me a fucking lighter what time did Stanley give me a fucking lighter and he’ll lighter coverage is a regular Bic lighter but it was inserted into a penis that you could flip the head of the penis off and open up the cigarettes and it was like Jessica struggling with this Fake Plastic penis looks like it’s open season on sexuality feel like having a having a kid is so scary anyway I think you do the best you can and I mean it’s a everybody has one of her parents right and we all have problems with the world signing up for a job that no one in history has ever nailed no one’s ever gotten it exactly right
Christmas shopping Target and I was looking for central time because all my friends have kids General gender neutral which means letting her to follow whatever they say it’s like we’re crazy eyes are black and blue between too strong and remember always my life until I was very upset with tipping masculine and skinny
I remember I was like the key to having a good walk is do act like you don’t give a shit what you walk looks like so I would give a shit about having a walk that look like I didn’t give a shit you know how old are you where I was probably 12 or something I felt like I was too masculine so I created a laugh that was well have you seen can you do it when she leaves she leaves by SoMo
really there’s a Jude Eugene who was like the funniest dude in 7th grade and then he he went away for the summer and then he came back and he decided that he was going to be like Eddie Murphy and he had affected this last I was so bummed out cuz he was so funny and such a nerdy funny dude when he came back out sexy drenched in Cologne do with Eddie Murphy lap and it’s fine if the answer is no let it let it let it slide a little will bring up Spencer it will look into to have a great evening but I’m just curious like you know in this Los Angeles audience is there anybody that can speak from the surf of gender
there’s somebody that ad
it just comforting upbringing like somebody that can talk about it you just give us give us more information than we have because we’ve been pontificating about how you supposed to raise a kid and what you supposed to imprint on them gender-wise is there anybody out there that that sort of went back and forth or existed in between had a weird experience
is willing to come up and talk about it you will eat willing willing to come up and speak for a little bit
I’ve never had like a gender identity crisis of myself I feel like my parents did like I was really upset cuz I don’t wear makeup this whole conversation I’ve kind of been hearing that it it feels to you like gender neutrality is something that you have to work for with a kid and it’s sort of like the opposite of the default which is trucks and dolls but the gender system in my view the gender system that we have is just as much of a construct as making something gender-neutral
because the gender system we have now takes that choice away and the problem that I have with the jenerson we have everything fully aware of that and like an example that I can’t stop thinking about is this love affair with his feet on the stage something girls to think I’d like somebody would go ahead and get your feet off stage I think about it I think bad about him up constantly
he is way out of line but I guess we never stays
call Kelly shoes are there still Oliver at 8 tonight.
Rocketbook continue fish
best it’s just it’s things like that and you know how I feel like I can do things because it makes a real difference seeing people that look like you do stuff you want to do. May I ask how old you are because it would never have occurred to them that they couldn’t and I think just having to tell girls that they could be like whatever they want to be comes from such a place of you know where is there a certain things that you feel don’t do that you don’t feel comfortable dealing with people that look like you wouldn’t what does that mean to you I kind of thing really think about all the time like when I look at a stage and there’s only been on it I don’t usually think like a man it’s all men don’t look like me
I feel relief and I didn’t realize that I was holding for us where were you raised in the Bay Area and that’s pretty Progressive sometimes I just come to the show a lot
do you ever cuz I feel self-conscious about this do you ever feel bummed I just talked about being a girl or kind of like
and it just feels feels weird to you know it would have been really weird if they had this whole discussion and what do you think about so you’re raised to the Baria by parents who are or were they what were they trying to do gender-wise to you or they were they on a mission or just trying to do what they thought was normal which is what everybody else is trying to do but it was like telling me until puberty and then they were like
but they didn’t see I don’t know with them and I didn’t really understand why you from doing anything that was like standard since it wasn’t it wasn’t supposed to be strong woman I think maybe this is totally for girls a little more weird because the girls are so babies are so pink houses are so everything where is
different things so like it’s for girls it’s a little weird but I was totally such a relief act as a boy a boy doesn’t have to put on a pink chiffon dress in his upbringing in order to be perceived as being less masculine lake lake gets more leeway a boy is allowed to be for instance smart a nerd like I feel like I feel like if a girl like Mary Curie I feel like I’m just like more interested in looking through a microscope then her coming-out party I feel like she gets more punished than her male counterpart at that is true
it’s being a guy is the best yeah I mean everything’s in our favor on the same thing for us that’s my point. My fifth birthday party in December she has all these costumes and most of them are little girl costumes and so cuz it for her and so there was a there were a bunch of other kids there but they were all but one of them was whether they were boys so there was four boys there and there was only there was like one male like that for the press to all of the guy that we’re running around just like Cinderella and princesses and shed first time anybody’s ever seen anything like this before and 5 year old 6 year old boys were all running around dressed like Pocahontas and shit it was hilarious.
they’re playing Cowboys and Indians but if you’re if you’re a little girl and you go into your brother’s like things are at all Cowboys hats they have to dress up like a damsels it would have all the parents were sitting around just watching my niece matix in forest and all the office. It’s and nobody gave a fuck it was like everybody just like everyone shoulders relaxed and going okay it’s all going to be all right because this is as it should be and if it wasn’t nobody was in for the boys didn’t lose any credit facility in I do want to see what it was but it was like one for 13 year olds would stab people in like that a bunch of drugs and stuff so they were all like sort of very obsessed with seeming like you know hard and tough and because it was all just guys there
the kids would end up like fucking each other and that they would have these sort of Crisis there come to Emily be like I think I’m gay and I’m not concerned that you might be but also just you know you have to get this out what time she heard these two kids were snuggling and they weren’t allowed to go home for Christmas at least two like really rough and tumble like 14 year olds and she heard the whistle one guy that did the other thing but I think that’s sort of whatever they want to do and not have to have a label on it you know and I think that’s sort of what kind of friend for them when you say that it’s not cool to be curly
boys are a really rewarded for being funny and Goofy and it sounds like Sarah have the same star at have the same experience that I did wear parents were you were interacting with the world we were worried that like you were going to be for sure like my mom had an actual conversation with me later excetera excetera everyone feels like oh my God I mean one of the last time you heard a guy being called now see you don’t really hear that sort of
play great women you don’t like Emily with this will happen all the time and Emily and I host a video game podcast is called always goes on every single time and also tell her to relax all the time which like fucking drives me nuts but then
she is a mouthy equivalent ratio lady like you have the n-word you have you have the height of profanity when there’s a group that is not part of the ownership class and then we joke about how there’s no. What are you going to call us at Cracker honky the boot this word. There’s there’s like five words that you can use to to indicate that a woman is is that a line when a guy is really out of line
it’s the same words because you’re impugn their gender I am the biggest defender of that the guy I wake up really really disapprove of a fella yeah I find myself Immaculate badly that they are a c word that they are 80 word that they already know what you’re talk I thought it was pretty face
are you getting a cock suck. That’s what you did was the same as the n-word it meet your dehumanizer know if you call a woman and see where you’re at if you could maybe come in a woman anyways probably uncomfortable standing up here.
say something. Sit down please you promised my friend Eric said if I talk about him cuz he’s my best friend
thank you Eric
I’m the worst
what was her name Zara Zara Zara
I don’t know how else to put in the Bay Area it’s Sarah not Sarah okay got away from the revolution
nice do you speak Farsi
we will make it sit down start interview again
how many girls here had kind of like a similar experience where their parents were weird about the Earth
our parents did that to us a bunch of the guys here at Ya gender politics High School Hasbro and Mattel
into and they’re all they only mean well they’re not going to try this does not mean we could argue that they do mean well like when you entrust a system like capitalism into something organic like your gender identity you can guarantee one thing
Parker Brothers and metal and and and these companies they’re definitely going to go where the heat is they have no interest in forming in your gender identity to make money and if they think that little boy is like to shoot things and make them bleed they are going to become part of a cycle that makes little boys feel like they want to make things bleeped but I also think that if when you were a kid that level in yourself is sort of a powerful thing you figuring out who your true identity is easier like I like sports you know what I mean it’s much harder when it’s fluid so I know that that’s a good goal to have for kids that can be a little it’s a little more challenging. Yeah that’s what I’m saying like you don’t look to your fuck
Saturday morning cartoon you don’t even look to your God damn parents I’m sorry let’s make this shit like everyone’s confused and if you if you look to who came before you for what you should do on your 13th birthday and what you should wear and what you should be playing with what you should be doing your your your you might get a little bit of truth but you’re probably going to get a lot of misinformation and parents responsibility is to do the best they can I guess within this Maelstrom to make sure that there’s a smorgasbord for my kid. Because as of right or wrong way to do it is because like you so someone said earlier that day that everybody got it wrong then there’s no nobody helped me and nobody
so hard to make things gender-neutral absolutely create more confusion than didn’t grew up with a lot of money there’s there’s there’s the oppression of a thousand times in my classic story like me being a mom sitting down with me I was playing with the it was Sesame Street figures like and Sesame Street was already it was a multiracial environment and stuff so they would like these little figures that were different colors and my mom or my mom saying can you tell me the difference between this guy and this guy and I say I went I was going to have really that’s the only difference
and in my mom’s I remember her guy that is so great that you don’t see the difference between them because the real difference is that this guy’s black
play the sky is white and you are part of a new generation that will not perceive race car till otherwise notified by the way it was the same man who came and stood at the foot of my bed because there was a there was a mini-series on TV and I remember her coming into my room and waking me up and sitting on the foot of my bed and say I’m waking you up and telling you there is going to come a day when people tell you that something called the Holocaust never happened
did happen and happened
they tried to kill all the Jews
I don’t care. It I don’t care who says what what evidence they represent you would have sounds like it just occurred to her it did it just occurred to her because my mother real
Asian said that
that’s why I’m here
because I am like in Apocalypto like I got up to the top of the pyramid like the thing that told my mom what to think on Wednesday I would say God damn it I don’t want to wash the dishes and she’d slap me and say you don’t say god dammit no one says god dammit Johnny Carson Park in Burbank weather
I got to get out to where this world makes the television I am going to control people’s thoughts I’m going to become a real person it’s fine because it’s because you were on television people think.
I got a new chair that’s what we’re talking about now

I don’t like it you like the fool that you don’t like this one but I don’t know about it
boil pillow on your pillow
male or female of the labels are important to humanity but you can’t stay stuck on the labels because they’re only as useful as Define the actual thing which is important gender at anybody really I thought
my eye is operating under the age of imprinted male gender at everything
reticulated what I meant.
Just let me go get my character sheets out
no you’re right it’s not turned out the key to gender neutrality is to not pay attention to a gender who would have thought
I feel like you are weak with an hour and a half to the bottom of this at all tomorrow about the gender problem
I think a lesser lesser person would approach gender neutrality by saying like she hears a girl thing as opposed to like not getting beyond all things like trucks aren’t necessarily boy things and houses aren’t necessarily a killing myself as a young Spencer Premiere with Legos and Star Wars action figures and that’s all I need is about building your own universe
well that’s the thing is like only took the whole it’s all about options like why why don’t women have powers because their options are limited there is only option Powers being able to choose your options right if you only have pink toys if you only have the ability to choose pink toys you’re being limited boys boys toys don’t have a color like you said earlier blacks are not there every color you know pink Toys R Us Girls toys so it’s just about options it’s not about saying one’s better than the other and girls toys are still Barbies they really haven’t changed much it’s all about like emulating of housewife
cuz yeah there was more there’s more options
yeah I was I was jealous of my nieces toys with their toys head like because it was an option that I wasn’t supposed to pick us when I prepare a strawberry shortcake Chris and I are his older sister had Strawberry Shortcake way we did we went into her bedroom he’s
the great here’s why I had a whole we had a pageant we had a strawberry shortcake pageant wow and he had a whole room full of Star Wars in GI Joe stuff and like but we were having a beauty pageant in his sister’s bedroom with Strawberry Shortcake dollhouse
Strawberry Shortcake
she smelled the best stuff to mail a kid lead characters in The King and I there’s the prince to the son of the king and Louis the 10th of the teacher was it was me and Doug clay who was thirteen he was going through puberty and he he jerked off in front of us to show us that things came out and cool your watch this
are we set up and it wasn’t like all come on man we didn’t know what the fucking point was it was like she was going to make the world’s best chicken recipe for the guy’s dick was as big as a thermos a little I had a little lamb chick a matter of fucking interesting interesting right there were four guys and three girls that travel with the show with the girls when they showed the girls
and a little bit of magic and says Kathy if that these girls are 12:13 says you guys have the equivalent for for girls and they’re like, yeah we have me and Luke and the other fucking cousin
what happens if your vagina is open there or they have cracked this mysterious code and it was secret because they were a year-and-a-half older than they do nothing weird about the fact that the Douglas just took us in the bathroom and showed at the store I remember in kindergarten I got all the kids together and was like my penis
and I was like hey you guys get a good luck
there was the whole thing I haven’t seen this
what was the reaction I think I don’t remember I remember it being all but I’m sure it wasn’t that nice truck I showed everyone I took a bath with my niece was two years younger than me and I saw the difference like plumbing and emergent or my parents Fancy Pants older cocktail parties have wee wees
girls have crack Wiis
and I left the room to apply to apply
and I took it as a fucking fucking blew their mind give me a plasma is holy shit that was talking to Macy
for The King and I
cracker cracker said she would do it in front of like company and stuff she would just like walk off this five-year-old girl and they were like they were like why do you do this she’s like it feels like when do you stop it she said I stop when I see the flowers
better if you were let’s take some fantastic
yeah I will. What’s happening last time on harmontown the game was feeling pretty empty after their Victory against Admiral Darkstar maybe it was the fact that the shards of power we’re still in the wrong hands or maybe it was because Chris de Burgh kept barfing everywhere and cut off his penis
all was not well they encountered their friend Mars Gold bright who made a cameo appearance noticing Chris de Burgh strange Behavior and the stone first and at the same time Admiral dark stars Castle crumbled into a hole in the Frozen Earth this enraged the Rogue and cause them to attend court clerk was having none of that however in Brockton through Chris de Burgh Shepherd member into the ice hole in response Chris possessed by ghoulish rank her old cork down into the ice hole himself Sharpie left and Jackson until the court hearing them down steeply with his feather fall but down where and down while I will find out
Channel wire
the right now shopping are falling down into a down where is locked you got me who’s got you you guys are floating for quite a while and you float I’m kind of floating diagonally just because that’s how momentum works and you see the crumbled ruins of a of the statue statue of the castle that’s falling through the ice hole there’s a whole new layer of ground looks like it’s maybe seven hundred feet below the surface of the the Earth before you guys are down that far and there’s a gray and cracked like dust like grain cracked dust and you see this this crumbled destroyed statue on it looks like it’s covering for its Fallen upon like a giant pile of bones like maybe like maybe a woolly mammoth
but bones bully bones Mammoth Advertiser above like a hundred feet above us
in the house you guys see my dick
so we landed on phones that are on the side of a pit or the blue when you’re Landing is pretty dark the only thing it’s the other than a great mass of expansive like underground miss that you didn’t know about is this just giant crumble Castle looks like it’s on a heap of Bones like a landed on he performs that’s all you can see
all right is what you’re telling me I mean the castle that you’re next to it you’re going to look at it or next to a castle that landed and I think I may have said that
Chris is it just me or do they seem pretty casual about about falling on these phones I pick her up
yeah that guy that happen
Craftmaster yeah that’s going to hurt
levitate levitate I haven’t spoke of levitate in a person not looking up
as Maureen plummets to what is almost certainly her Doom she gets within me for
repeat of the ground before being swallowed and propelled by the levitating sports that gently drifts drifts you down to the Earth you kind of stopped like a foot or so above it going down I’m sorry first floor awesomeness
what happens what can I eat if I jump down will you guys levitate me too
listen I know I did a lot of it recently
but I feel like throwing the previous person said I’m feeling better
I don’t know how many times I have levitate charge the arrow to shoot it up
I could craft something well that’s true I would like to cast
some form of light spell okay
you know the one I’m talking about white maybe I cast it on my thumb casting light upon your thumb you hold it a lot to get a better View and what you can see is skinny skinny figure approaching you he looks it looks real skinny and kind of guy he’s approaching his hands are like this and you can see their glowing orange a orange hands
identify yourself he hisses in a language you don’t really understand Mom it’s not common is it possible that you don’t know Parseltongue so you wouldn’t be able to tell a skeleton
sometimes elves look like skeleton is he being rude
I woke up to him and introduce myself my name is cork I’m a barbarian we could use your help right now we’re in the middle of a series of you with this cold is your name what is your name will metzer you come down here which means you’re in a desperate you got that right
what are you can pay tree it doesn’t really matter what his name is
what is named feel bad that’s good to know I am the rebel I come from to the city of Unshackled your hands are gone.
That’s just that’s just who I am
are the shackles death
these shackles aren’t death death Death is the Mortal coil the necromancers you see they shackle our souls to our bones and forces into labor but if you can throw off the shackles we gain something better than immortality on mortality or dark Forces I simply exist until I stopped what I’m sorry about that I wish I could have prevented that or done something to help going to do that hundred feet away
IQ acid into the hole in his general direction
you you hear drops is vomit rains down for above and flashes into the dusty ground sorry about my friend what’s your name Nev the rebel of the Rebel yes
I don’t get it well it just you know a lot of people who have been characterized as Rebels aren’t named Lynn if that’s what’s so rebellious
were you were you raised a boy or a girl
that’s as good as it gets baby alright Lynette going
I was here like up I can’t fly maybe not necessarily up but how do we how do we get out actually I was I was sent out here when I was a part of my duties for tormod you see her crafts market has been destroyed by there’s a castle that fell through the ceiling and it just crushed it killed like 200 of our finest Craftsmen and not like like like like like I do not like cool glowing hands skeleton like like Dunn dead
that’s why I’m here I jumped down into the well and I I’ll say god dammit
I’ll try levitate you got some more of those on the ground just a bit you’re fine. Who’s this fucker the rental
I come from tormod toward the city of Unshackled dead what are you going to have the touch of death about you sir I pulled one of the Rebel aside go back whenever I just met you and I’ve known this guy Chris de Burgh he’s been acting really strange can you help us out with us he looks like he is some sort of ghastly or spectral presence lurking about corrupting his soul in his mind you’re going to you’re going to need to quite rare is rare plant only grow in places I don’t even know where because you know we don’t we don’t like plans too much but I know what it’s called what’s it called called the Tarragona virtue
Paragon of virtue anyone who eats in Tarragona verse use their soul will be cleansed and purified all right guys can we make this part of I’m sorry I know I’ve been a real shit can be part of the quest be like that we find a paragon of virtue for me it doesn’t have to be it could be like I could be like a side quest
Minecraft supplies I construct a puzzle crafting you got there
I think you should put the phone all right as a show of good faith
New Deal 6 laser damage
alright not feeling good I’m going to turn over wants to do a thing I’m so sorry I don’t deserve to die
I am my soul is corrupted I have the touch of death about me you heard of the Rebel
Paragon of virtue for pity’s sake of the Rebel was is there an exit we can get out I can take you to a phone and maybe they can help you people is attacking our other people I don’t care about that
it might not be but we take 7 damage
okay I use my arm armlet spring thing I didn’t snare Chris de Burgh yeah that happens I got a guy’s I don’t know what is going on I mean
people down holes and text or call you after I do it
soon as I do it I’m like oh this is happening
I look for an exit behind whenever he came when he came toward us even with your dark / Vision you can’t see anything it’s all I could take you to torment or not that’s all I got yeah you guys stop fighting for a little while to go to the bank saying so sorry trusted well armed as well me either all these all wrapped up your note threat right now Kumail all right I just grabbed the scary me or
I take a quiz to Bergen if they look we’re going to carry you to the Bone Sage of Torment of the toboggan I read a tire, I just like like like a gentleman and I and II carry him out
tonight I look at Crystal Percocet look
I’m going to carry you to the Bone stage no funny business no
no funny business
no there will be no funny business or no there will be funny business
I leaned down and I can start making out with it I just I just have a holding him like a baby
drive to Cracker his mouth achieve erection erection
been at the Econo
I go can we get to the Bone stage are we going to keep puking on each other the hallway light
oh heck no dick
Geno’s garage
holy moly
we going to start playing TNT a little earlier than show I think
coming up thank you Erin mcgathy
I hope you all learned a little something about Daniel Quinn and


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